Building Innovative Digital Ventures

Ankur Joshi:

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Nuclei podcast series, Digital DNA where I speak with industry leaders to grasp their perspectives. We delve into their formative years, seeking insights into their worldview and learning from their experiences.

I'm Ankur Joshi, founder and CEO of Nuclei, a global fintech firm collaborating with 20% of banks across Asia, offering various fintech production solutions integrated into diverse banking platforms. Delighted to have Mr. Petr Klimes, a prominent marketer and digital marketing executive with extensive international banking experience. Petr initiated groundbreaking projects at Abu Dhabi Islamic Bank and City Bank. I'm intrigued by Petr's approach to product development and digital product advancement in banking, a topic we'll explore today. Petr, it's a pleasure to have you on our podcast. Thank you for your time.

Petr Klimes:

Thanks for inviting me. I'm excited, thank you.

Ankur Joshi:

Awesome. As we discussed before recording, many industry leaders' formative years shape their leadership principles during school and college. Let's revisit those years and understand your formative experiences. Were there key incidents, events, or principles developed in your first 20 years that still guide your approach to product development and team leadership?

Petr Klimes:

I grew up in the Czech Republic behind the iron curtain. Until I was 20, I lived in a socialist bloc, and my first travel outside the country was at 15, limited to the eastern part of Europe. I'm the third of five children in a Catholic family in a predominantly atheist country, making me quite unique. I always felt different but am grateful for the values instilled by my parents, emphasizing courage and belief in something greater. The Velvet Revolution, which I witnessed at 19, marked the fall of communism, and I actively participated in the student movement that contributed to overthrowing the communist government. That experience fueled my desire to go west.

I had limited language skills but managed to learn English in six months, seizing an opportunity to study in the US for a year. This international exposure fascinated me, shaping my interest in different cultures. When I returned, seeking a job, I naturally gravitated towards international companies, starting my journey with Citibank.

Ankur Joshi:

It's intriguing how one's worldview transforms after exposure to the world around 18 or 19. Beliefs and values can shift drastically. Your journey from growing up in a communist regime to entering a completely different environment must have been a profound change. For instance, not speaking English until you were 19 or 20, I can relate to that, coming from a small town in India with poor English skills until my early twenties. Did such experiences or beliefs undergo significant changes for you, given your transition?

Petr Klimes:

Growing up, my family faced financial struggles due to my father's qualifications being overlooked under the regime. We had limited resources, and I felt our standing in the community wasn't as high as it could be. This fueled a latent drive to prove that someone from our family could achieve greatness and make our parents proud. Additionally, curiosity played a significant role, nurtured by my parents through discussions on politics, nature, and astronomy.

Even today, I remain fascinated by topics like the big bang and black holes. This curiosity shaped my career as a marketer, seeing marketing as a storytelling profession. If you tell a story with passion and conviction, it becomes memorable – the holy grail of marketing, I believe.

Ankur Joshi:

That's exactly where I was going to go because your curious mind and curiosity were evident when we first met in Dubai. We connected not only over discussing Amwali but also shared backgrounds. I realized you were well-read with an innate curiosity, offering a unique worldview. I'm sure that played a significant role in how you led teams and your choice of marketing as a profession. Was entering marketing a natural progression, or was it a deliberate choice to develop specific skills?

Petr Klimes:

I initially started in corporate banking at Citibank in the Czech Republic, as there was no retail banking back then. However, I didn't enjoy traditional banking activities. My roles included product development, management, sales, and quality management with a focus on process design and the Six Sigma quality program. While I didn't plan on being a banker, I found myself in that space when Citibank opened in Prague.

I always wanted to move around and shifted towards SME banking and then retail banking and marketing. That shift felt like I was born for this – a space where creativity and curiosity could thrive. These moments were exceptionally rewarding in my career.

Ankur Joshi:

You've consistently been recognized as one of the top marketers, ranking among the top 50 across the region. What sets you apart? As one of the few marketers from the banking industry, what advice would you offer to marketing teams, especially in the banking sector?

Petr Klimes:

I consider myself fortunate when I joined an Islamic bank and was tasked with creating a new ethos for the brand. This project deeply resonated with me on both intellectual and spiritual levels, given my religious background. I felt I could make a positive impact by shaping the story of Islamic banking to improve its image globally. The challenge was to make Islamic banking attractive to non-Muslims, and for a marketer and brand builder, it was a dream project. We conducted studies and discovered that the ethical element of Islamic banking was universally accepted.

We initiated projects like Ethical Finance, a global award for ethical finance initiatives, showcasing how money could be used for good. The slogan "Banking as it should be" emerged from a focus group with non-Muslims, emphasizing the universal appeal of ethical banking.

Ankur Joshi:

That's interesting, targeting non-Muslims with Islamic banking. Can you share some success stories or examples of products that attracted customers, especially non-Muslims, to Islamic banking?

Petr Klimes:

Islamic banks face ethical dilemmas – whether to use Islam as a marketing tool or to use the principles of Islam for marketing. I believe the latter is the right approach. By being a transparent, customer-centric bank adhering to ethical values, success follows. At the Islamic bank, we strictly focused on being a good bank rather than emphasizing our Islamic identity. We adopted the term "Sharia inspired" instead of "Sharia compliant" to highlight the positive aspects of Sharia principles. For instance, financial education became a core initiative, emphasizing the idea of being "money smart."

Transparency wasn't just about disclosing terms but also guiding customers to make informed choices. This approach, rooted in doing the right thing for the customer, contributed to the success and positive perception of Islamic banking.

Ankur Joshi:

One of the success stories we discussed, specifically from a financial education perspective, was in Amwali, which you launched with ADIB. Can you provide some background on the decision to create it? How did you develop it? Highlight key milestones and share a few examples of your experience building Amwali?

Petr Klimes:

Yeah, so we endeavor to explain to people, and it's not always easy because, unfortunately, bankers often have a very short-term view of the world, right? Islamic banking, on the contrary, adopts a long-term perspective, a stable and predictable growth. Islamic banking's growth perspective might seem somewhat uneventful, but that's precisely what a long-term investor desires. The key lies in making the future as predictable as possible. Therefore, we can focus on bringing customers to the bank when they become adults. That's the idea, isn't it? Why not grow your own customers, nurture them, build your own clientele? Hence, the concept of Amwali, our Children's banking, emerged. While Children banking propositions in the West are typically handled by apps or different programs, we took a unique approach.

It was a strategy to empower ADIB's future by engaging kids aged 20-22. We aimed to provide them with financial education, tools, and instill responsible money habits, eventually turning them into customers. We observed that kids who grew up with us as Children having our account, when offered adult banking, 70 to 80% of them agreed, showcasing a phenomenal conversion rate. Though earning around 50 Dirhams, or $10-$12 per year on a child's account may not seem exciting for a bank, considering the Net Present Value (NPV) of that relationship over ten years into the future makes it incredibly compelling.

It requires corporate patience and alignment with your brand ethos. For us, the focus wasn't on teaching them about credit cards or borrowing money but guiding them on saving and being smart with money. We emphasized the importance of charity and family, ensuring that kids remained connected to their parents through the tool to instill good financial habits. The process was enjoyable, and our in-house team, captivated by the vision, built the product in six months. We launched it successfully, incorporating feedback from kids through our founders' club, demonstrating the importance of humility in marketing. Being open to changing opinions is crucial, as our initial designs, leaning towards gaming and childish themes, were vetoed by the kids who wanted a product that made them feel like adults.

Ankur Joshi:

I remember having this conversation with you, understanding that kids don't want to be treated like kids; they actually want to be treated like adults. Giving them that respect will naturally make them respond to your product. Thanks, Peter, for sharing that. Your journey with Amwali over the last couple of decades has been fascinating. How has the definition of success changed for you, not just from a marketing perspective, but personally?

Petr Klimes:

That's a good question. Success, for me, is going home and feeling good about what I do. There was a time when the glory associated with my title and peer recognition mattered more. However, my favorite Christian thinker, Richard Rohr, emphasized not taking titles too seriously and not letting them become part of one's identity. Losing the title allowed me to let it go, understanding that it doesn't define me.

Success, for me, is leaving with gratitude and having grown my team. I had the privilege of working with phenomenal people for over a decade, and the success was in fostering a team that stayed together through storms and learning from each other.

Ankur Joshi:

That humility is something you give off. It was my first impression of you, and having a team stick with you for so many years reflects your leadership skills. For someone at the same level, early in their banking career, what advice would you give them if they aim to be as successful as you?

Petr Klimes:

Passion is often overused and misunderstood, but it's something you cannot get; you can only lose it. It can move mountains because it stems from your identity and beliefs. Do things you believe in, make sense to you, and be nice to people. A Machiavellian worldview isn't the best; be nice to everyone. If someone turns out to be a hidden CEO or a janitor, it doesn't matter. Being nice to people has worked for me. Enjoy learning from everyone; there's something to learn from every person, even those you may disagree with.

Ankur Joshi:

Absolutely, Petr. Thank you so much. This was a very interesting and insightful conversation. Thanks again for coming on the podcast. I look forward to meeting you very soon.

Petr Klimes:

Thank you very much for inviting me. I enjoyed it a lot. Have a good time.

Ankur Joshi:

Thank you. Bye.

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